Apostolic Preterist

Patriotism&Christianity


Many people believe that Christianity and patriotism go hand and hand. The truth is that it was always Israel in the bible who was Gods one group of people until he came and made a way for all nations whether Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female to all be able to be saved. He judged the very last Israelites under the old covenant that rejected the new covenant when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. Now an Israelite under the new covenant is anyone who is saved under the new covenant. Our loyalties should not be to any government ran by man, but God alone. Our government in America is suppose to be a Christian nation, but is it? Look around. The unsaved way outrank the saved and the government has for its God what they put on our dollar bill. It is known as the all seeing eye of Horus. One of the false Gods the Egyptians worshiped. Many of our presidents have been free masons. Free Masons teach that you can worship any God as long as you have some religion in your life. A man who was a Free Mason later left and wrote a book called “Can a Christian be a Mason?” In his book he says that they believe in a God called Jahbulon, which stands for Jehovah, Baal and Osiris. JAH = Jahweh, the God of the Hebrews. BUL = Baal, the ancient Canaanite fertility god associated with 'licentious rites of imitative magic'. ON = Osiris, the Ancient Egyptian god of the underworld

Do you really believe that our government is a Christian government. Who promotes us going to war against people that have done nothing to us. If they feel like it, they will send a drone and drop a bomb on an entire house of men, women and children just to kill one so called “terrorist.” Do you not believe that Jesus died for every mans sins. Including those we promote killing. What business do Christians have in killing anyone. The bible says bless your enemies, love those who curse you. It also says to “turn the other cheek.” He said that his kingdom is not of this world. This world will always be run by wicked men as long as the world keeps turning. If you’re wondering why I didn't say until Jesus comes back, it is because I am a Preterist which is a different belief on end time. A preterist believes that Jesus kept his word and came back in the generation he promised that he would which was his own. We just believe that his coming was the same kind of coming that took place in the old testament when Gods people would backslide he would say it was going to be a cloudy day or he would ride on a cloud which always was God punishing his people using another nations army. The bible said there would be one last generation that would be judged and that happened when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D

Submission and authorities

Please read the following scriptures and I will explain their meaning below. Romans 13

1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Notice that there are governing authorities as in more than one authority. Then there's no authority unless God established them. God established the covenant of law. (Which had not passed) he had also brought the new covenant which was to be established in 70 A.D during this period the people of God were to do good, so that the law would pass and governing authorities (Pharisees and Sadducees) would pass. Read what I have highlighted in 3 & 4. Those verses say “Do you want to be free from fear of the one authority?” Speaking of the authority of law keeping. Then it says “Gods servants was an agent of wrath to bring punishment on wrongdoers. This happened when the new covenant disciples authorities preached the new covenant and it was rejected causing punishment to fall on those who were doing evil under the law. This happened in 70 A.D when Jesus returned in the clouds which always represented judgment and he did this using the Roman armies who destroyed Jerusalem and only the Christians escaped. Verse 6. This is speaking of the taxes (tithes) owed to Gods authorities. Some bring up when Jesus told them to give to Caesar what is Caesars must mean that the authorities were Roman. Jesus only said to give to Caesar what is Caesars, because it was Caesars money and his face on it. We know that the authorities were Gods, because at the end of verse 6 it says the authorities of Gods servants who give their full time governing. The present section of the chapter begins (Hebrews 13:7) and ends (Hebrews 13:17) with a reference to the rulers of the Church: Remember your former leaders, and imitate their faith (notice it only says to imitate their faith and to remember your leaders who were those under law.) Then it says obey them that lead you now this was speaking of the authority leaders under then new covenant of grace, For they watch.—The Greek is emphatic: “For it is they that watch on behalf of your souls as having to give account.”Hebrews 13:17. Obey them that have the rule over you — The expression, τοις ηγουμενοις, implies also, that lead or guide you, namely, in truth and holiness; and submit yourselves.


Under God, Not from God

Most translations of Romans 13:1 say,

There is no authority except from God.

The Greek word translated as "from" is "upo". This word means "under" rather than "from". This is a subtle but important difference (another example of the translators favouring the political authorities).

Saying that all authority is from God implies that he created it, but has given it to someone else. It has gone from him to the political authorities. This is a distortion of the truth.

Authority under God has not gone anywhere. Paul is saying that there is no legitimate authority except under God. True authority can only be received by those who move "under" God. Any authority which is not under God has been stolen and is illegitimate.

Overcome Evil with Good

(I would like to add that when it talks about overcoming evil with good, it reminds me of the law. If you've read my other articles, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represented the law, which caused the fall and until the law was completely done away by Christ returning according to the bible they were still under the law. Matt 5:18. Until heaven and earth (the law) passed away not one jot, and not one tittle of the law will pass until all things be fulfilled. This cannot represent the literal heaven and earth, because if that was the case then we are still under the law until the literal heaven and earth passes away. My point is the Christians until Christ returned in 70 A.D had to do good works to over come the evil government of Jews that were in power during that time was done away with when God judged them for persecuting his saints and rejecting him and his new covenant.) TG

Evil could not beat evil. The only way to overcome evil was with good. However, the commentators view is that evil rulers are useful, because they bring order to society by restraining evil. However, this is overcoming evil with evil, which is the opposite of Paul's message in this passage.

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21).

This implies that evil cannot be overcome by bad government, but only by good government, which is Gods government. Paul is narrowing the discussion down to good government.

The prophets condemn those who say that evil things are good. We must be careful not to fall into that trap. If we say that evil rulers are God's servant to do us good, we saying that bad government is good. That cannot be right.

God's Servant

For he is God's servant to do you good (Rom 13:4).

Many Christians assume that this applies to all rulers. This is nonsense. Rulers like Hitler and Stalin opposed God and slaughtered millions of innocent people. To describe them as servants of God is absurd. This suggests there is something seriously twisted with the traditional understanding of this passage. The word "he" cannot apply to every ruler.

A simple reading of the New Testament shows that many rulers do not do good. Herod the Great killed all the boys aged less than two who lived in the vicinity of Bethlehem (Matt 2:16). Herod the Tetrarch beheaded John the Baptist to avoid embarrassment in front of his guests (Mark 6:21-28). Pontus Pilate killed Jesus, because he was afraid of the people, even though he found no basis for the charges against him (Luke 23:14). Herod Agrippa had James the brother of John put to death with the sword (Acts 12:2). These few examples prove that most rulers and kings do not do good. Therefore, Paul cannot be speaking about all rulers and kings in Romans 13:4. We are seriously confused, if we think that dictators and politicians can be called God's servants.

Paul had first hand experience of political authorities doing great harm. When he and Silas were in Philippi, they were flogged and beaten by the Roman magistrates.

The crowd joined in the attack against Paul and Silas, and the magistrates ordered them to be stripped and beaten. After they had been severely flogged, they were thrown into prison (Acts 16:22.23)

Paul was not speaking of these magistrates, when he wrote of God's servants doing us good. He understood from first hand experience that the state could be very dangerous for Christians and do them great harm.

I have been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned (1 Cor 11:23-25).

Paul knew better than most that the state can be very hostile to God's people. Given this experience, the idea that he taught that all political authorities are God's servants is nonsense. His teaching in Romans 13 is not a blanket approval for all political rulers.

Recently in China, 30 house-church leaders were arrested and forced to pay fines. During the arrests and interrogations, Christians were abused inhumanely by constant heavy beatings. These Christian leaders would not say that they political authorities are God's servants to do them good. They would understand that they are enemies of God.

Most Christians assume that we must submit to all political powers. This cannot be true. If Paul believed that all authorities are from God, he would have used the word "all", but he did not. He used the Greek word "all" (pasa) when saying that "all people should submit", but he did not use it when saying which authorities to submit to.

False Syllogism

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established (Rom 13:1b).

The traditional interpretation of these verses is that we must submit to all political authorities, because their authority is from God. This is a false syllogism. To see the twisted logic, look at the following sets of statements.

All authority is ordained by God
Hitler has authority
Therefore Hitler is ordained by God,
so we must submit to him.

That is not true. The correct logic is as follows.

All legitimate authority is from God.
Hitler was hostile to God
Therefore, the authority of Hitler is illegitimate.

The statement that all authority is ordained by God cannot be used as to legitimise any and every political authority. It should inspire us to seek out legitimate authority.

http://kingwatch.co.nz/Law_Government/romans_13.htm



The common reference to Romans 13 requiring us all to obey the government without question should be examined within the context of what Romans 13 says and means with regard to obedience to the conventions of man.

The 1599 Geneva Study Bible Romans 13
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/gsb/view.cgi?book=ro&chapter=013

13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
(1) Now he distinctly shows what subjects owe to their magistrates, that is obedience: from which he shows that no man is free: and the obedience we owe is such that it is not only due to the highest magistrate himself, but also even to the lowest, who has any office under him.
(3) Another argument of great force: because God is author of this order: so that those who are rebels ought to know that they make war with God himself: and because of this they purchase for themselves great misery and calamity.

This first passage of Romans, taken alone, appears to give absolute authority to the government. When examined along with the following passages it becomes clear that an un-Godly, unjust, oppressive government cannot exercise God’s authority over man, because it does not merit that authority.

13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
(4) The third argument, taken from the reason for which they were made, which is that they are to be most profitable: because God by this means preserves the good and bridles the wicked: by which words the magistrates themselves are put in mind of that duty which they owe to their subjects.

The government is thereby put on notice by God that they must serve the best interests of those in their charge.

13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
(6) God has armed the magistrate even with an avenging sword.
(c) By whom God avenges the wicked.

John S. C. Abbott and Jacob Abbott Illustrated New Testament – 19th Century
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/ain/view.cgi?book=ro&chapter=013

13:4 The minister of God; the servant, or instrument, employed by God. The duty of submission to the civil government, here urged in an absolute manner, is, of course, like all the other precepts of a similar character contained in the New Testament, to be understood with certain limitations and restrictions. The principal exceptions commonly made to the rule here laid down in general terms, are two: –first, that the civil authorities may be resisted when they require of the subject what is morally wrong; and, secondly, that, when their misgovernment and oppression become extreme and hopeless of reform, the community may depose them from their power.

Obviously, a government which perpetrates acts of evil upon those in their charge cannot be a minister of God, therefore agents of government who are perceived to commit acts of evil against the people should not be obeyed.

GSB 13:5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
(7) The conclusion: we must obey the magistrate, not only for fear of punishment, but much more because (although the magistrate has no power over the conscience of man, yet seeing he is God’s minister) he cannot be resisted by any good conscience.
(d) So far as we lawfully may: for if unlawful things are commanded to us, we must answer as Peter teaches us, “It is better to obey God than men.”

This is a clear example of choosing right over wrong and the commandments of God over any unlawful, unconscionable decrees of the conventions of man. Obey the lawful orders of your government, and disobey the unlawful or immoral orders of that same government. Do the right thing, whether it is adhering to the good order presented by the rules of a lawful, just society, or refusing to obey lawless authorities who tyrannize and oppress a society.

Don’t allow an unjust, government to order you around in the name of God, for they are not entitled to that authority! And don’t allow such false assertions to go unchallenged when your(?) government invokes Romans 13 to compel your submission to their decrees. Speak up when you hear such false assertions, while you still may do so without threat of imminent death or injury as a result!

The 1599 Geneva Study Bible Ephesians 6
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/gsb/view.cgi?book=eph&chapter=006&phrase=#phrase

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